Posted by: "Salai STLN" st.laini@yahoo.com elaisa_t
Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:27 pm (PDT)
The question of LaiWritten by Guest on 2008-10-22 21:26:55Sir Rev.Laiu Congtrats for your participation in seminar at MZU.. I would however,like to contest your arqument that the nomenclature Lai denotes only Haka-thantlang speaking people.. Asyou know the ground realities in Chin Hills where even non-Hakaspeaking tribes like thangtlang, Senthang, Lautu,Laizo, Zotung andZophei(Zyphe/ Vawngtu) also identify themselves as a part of Laimi, Idon't think your contention that Lai refers only to Haka speakingcommunities is correct.. In fact, Pu Lian Uk and other Chinhistorians( manifested in their writings in various article and books)were right in saying that Laimi consist of sub groups- Zyphe,Thantlang, Zytung, senthang, etc. who have their own dialect yet whenthey composed an epics or hlado they all composed in their motherdialect-Haka. . Take for instances, my tribe(Zyphe) , we have our ownlocal songs and others but when it comes to Hlado and Hlapui ourforefathers had composed it in Haka( lingua franca for Laimitribes)..In terms of linguistic affinity these sub-groups-Zyphe, Lautu,senthang, etc. have a lot of similarity with Haka dialect which isbecoming Lai holh or language.. At the same time, though ourZophei brethen in Chin hills are a part of Lai, In India we do notnecessarily claim to be a part of Lai. The dynamic nature of ethnicitywhich can underwent a change with change in Politics, geography, etc.explains this..I believe the same thing will happen to our Lautu,Senthang, etc brethen have they settled in India.. After all out herein India even Lai themselves properly do not know about their ownlanguages.. Nevertheless, the generic term Lai applies notonly to Haka-speaking communities which is clear from the nature ofethnicity in Chin state. M.H.James. shillongWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 04:31:25DearM.H James, Pu Lian Uk and other Chin historians all the times write ourhistory that way. Their biased writings have led us to this position.First of all we must understand that the tribals living in this part ofthe Kuki-Chin-Mizo world are closely knitted people from timeimmemorial separated only by a slightly different languages - we cannotsay they are just dialects. Languages evolve and becomes finally stableafter certain point of time. In fact, English is called a Germaniclanguage but we cannot say it is a dialect of German. Likewise,Mara, Zophei, Zotung, Senthang and others too may share similaritieswith their brethren languages - Mizo, Lai, Hmar, Thadou, Zomi, etc, butwe can't classify them as a dialect of those. If Zopheis or Zotungs aremuch in population today, they will do the same thing what Lais inMyanmar(Burma) are doing today. We still live in a world dominated by amore populous and more powerful people. Politically, it makesno sense for these smaller ones to assert their existence as a separateand equal tribe. Because of this weaknesses, Lusei speaking people nowadopt Mizo as the new name for these tribals in india exploit the sameby calling the rest Mizos including Lais, Maras, Paites, etc. In Burma,the same thing happens, Lais are the dominant group there and they dothe same thing. It is appalling to see such and someone like you are avictim of such political propaganda. We are all equal and need to respect one another. Then we can have peace and tranquility in the areas where we live. Sub-tribe tag is the worse political manipulation Lais or Mizos could ever impose on the smaller tribes. Let's hope Dr.Laiu will respond too. - PeaceOutTo whom it may concern (whoever say MaraWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 04:55:38PeaceOut has made the point. Just to add one more thing before Dr. Laiu respond: Butthose historians all the times write our history that way including PuLian Uk always made a very big mistake and contradict their own claimwhen they they write Mara, Lautu, Zophei, Zotung, Senthang are thesub-tribe of Lai and they equate the term Lai and Chin ( e.g. Lai =Chin). If they claim Lai = Chin, then they may be right to sayMara is sub-tribe of Lai or Chin. That will also make it true Lusheiand Zo is sub-tribe of Lai or Chin. Interestingly, they seem to never realized this self contradiction! StableMaraLaiu' s responseWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 09:38:10Dear James, Iappreciate your comments. Reading your arguments, I could see that youare a learned man. Others too, Delhi Mara Satlia, Sisi Paw, -Mara tillI die -, ..., PeaceOut, StableMara and all who are following thisdiscussion. You all have done well. Thanks to you all. 1.First of all, let us discuss about whether Mara is a language ordialect. According to Genese 11, at the beginning the whole world spokeONE language. With the breaking down of the Babel tower, many languagesappeared. Today we have more than six thousand languages in the world.And Mara is one of these languages. Let me substantiate my point. IfMara is a dialect, then which one would be the main language of whichMara is its dialect? Although it is not true in all cases, when we saydialect, in many cases, different dialects of a main language couldcommunicate/ understand each other. If Lai includes Haka-Thlantlang,Zophei, Lautu, Zotung, Senthang, Mara, then which of these languageswould be the main language. Is the Haka-Thlantlang language the mainLai language or is it one of the Lai dialects? I am afraid that theHaka-Thlantlang people claim their language as the main Lai languageswhile demoting all these other languages as Lai dialects. The realitytoday is, Haka-Thlantlang people and Mara people do notcommunicate/ understand each other. So are Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian) and Marapeople. Haka-Thlantlang language and Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian) languages arevery close. They could somehow communicate each other. But not Mara andLai, nor are Mara and Lusei. Let us read the following sentences: "Chahawhrima cha, Tlaikaopa nata Hiakha-Thlatla pazy ta keimolasaw maniahcharichahmypa ta maniah pahleipadia ama chhuah ha he; ei khiahloh raivaw tlah thei khao va!" Whoever could read these lines and understand it as his/her mother tongue, that is, without learning this language, are Mara. "Zochia le Zo ek tan sau pawl, zei dah nan chim ve; Haka-Thlantlang pawlkan chim mi le kan tuah mi hi rak ngai u law, rak tuah ve ko u!" Thosewho could read this lines and understand as their monther tongue, thatis, without learning this language, are Haka-Thlantlang people orso-called Lai. "Lakher-ho lah hi in tlem te lulhnen UT te in ti ve a, a nuiza thlak hle mai" Thosewho could read and understand this sentence as his/her mother tonguewithout learning this language are Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian) . Fromthe above examples, it should be clear now that these three languagesare very different. Without learning the other language, these threegroups would not be able to communicate each other. This also showsthat they are not just dialects, but complete languages. Asregards Hlado, Dr Lian H Sakhong agreed that although the Zophei peoplesing it in Lai (Haka-Thlantlang) language, some of those who sing donot really understand the meaning, unless they had learnedHaka-Thlantlang language. Therefore, to say that we belong to the sameethnic group and language based on similarities in our Hlados is toosimplistic. Maybe Hlado originated from the Haka-Thlantlang area whichMara people might have borrowed. Since it is a borrowed one, they didnot know how to Maranize it. Remember, each language group in the worldhas many borrowed words, borrowed tunes, borrowed cultures, borrowednames, borrowed food habits, etc. For examplem "sawhkha" is a Maraword, but is a borrowed word (from Hindi?). The Bible Societyof India, for that matter, the world, recognized and accepted Mara as alanguage. The Government of India recognized Mara as a language. Inthe final analysis, we the insiders should decide for ourselves.Outsiders do not understand us and therefore they shoud not imposetheir ideologies on us. The worse thing would be for outsiders toimpose themselves on us to serve their political agenda. 2.Mara as a major tribe, not a sub-tribe of Lai. If Zophei, Lautu, Zotungand Senthang people in Myanmar want to be Lai or more correctlysub-tribes of Lai, well, may the Lord bless them as Lai. But justbecause they want to be Lai, they cannot force the Mara people too tobe Lai. Looking at the present geo-political realities, theMara people have every reason to have their own separate identity asMara. Above all, we all were just one people in the beginning; we allwere Adamites. But today, there are so many people groups in the world.Therefore, it is undeniable fact that, in the course of time, the Marapeople had grown into a distinct tribe/nation. Having saidthat, the Haka-Thlantlang (Lai) and Mara might have been "brothers"many, many centuries ago. But today, we have our own languages, lands,and identity. So why would the so-called Lai people continue to insistthat Mara is Lai? If they say that we are their brothers, yes, we wouldlove to be their brothers. But we are no longer Lai. AsStableMara has rightly pointed out, the Lai scholars' ideological grandpositioning of Lai is to equate it with Chin, that is, Lai=Chin. But inreality, they restrict Lai to several Falam (Laizo, etc) groups,Haka-Thlantlang, Zokhua, Zophei, Lautu, Zotung, Senthang, Mara, etconly. This is what Lian H Sakhong asserted: Under his Chin, he listedsix major groups: Asho, Cho (Sho), Khuami, Laimi (Lai), Mizo (Lushai),and Zomi (Kuki). This assertion clearly shows that Lai is not Chin, butLai is a group of Chin only. The Bible Society of Indiadiscovered the Mara language as very distinct from other Chin-Kukilanguages such as Lai, Mizo (Lushei), Hmar, Paite, etc. Therefore, theyeven do not classify Mara language under Chin-Kuki languages. Havingsaid that, it is true that the Mara people have many similarities withother Chin-Kuki groups. The fact, however, is that we had separatedfrom othe Chin-Kuki, including Lai, groups for centuries. Wecould accept if the Mara is listed in par with six Chin or Chin-Kukigroups. In that trajectory, Lian H Sakhong's major groups of Chin orChin-Kuki would include: Asho, Cho (Sho), Khuami (Mro), Laimi, Mizo(Lushai), Zomi, Mara. The bottome line: In order for the Marapeople to be included in Chin-Kuki-Mizo groups, we do not have to gothrough the Lai or Lushai, we could be a Chin-Kuki-Mizo tribe in ourown right. We have come a long way as Mara; we do not have to belittleour identity and merge with Lai. Let me, however, make myposition clear. When I speak for a Mara identity, I do respect and wishthe Lai and Mizo well. I am their good neighbor and friend. They areGod's people; so I love them. What I am trying to do is to see thingsthe way insiders see and feel, not the way outsiders want it to be. Laiu FachhaiMy response to JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 12:32:03HiJames, first of all, I want to thank you for participating here andgiving valuable insights. I will try to respond how I see things frommy end too. @James: In fact, Pu Lian Uk and other Chinhistorians( manifested in their writings in various article and books)were right in saying that Laimi consist of sub groups- Zyphe,Thantlang, Zytung, senthang, etc. My Response: These scholarswanted to even burn down N.E Perry's The Lakhers since Perry's bookthey said is legitimating the existence of Mara as separate, distincttribe. Mr. Perry's work on this book was valuable but it merely exposedthe truth, nothing more. @James:. who have their own dialectyet when they composed an epics or hlado they all composed in theirmother dialect-Haka. . Take for instances, my tribe(Zyphe) , we have ourown local songs and others but when it comes to Hlado and Hlapui ourforefathers had composed it in Haka( lingua franca for Laimi tribes).. Myresponse: Maras sing Hlado and Hlapui in Lautu (Azao) language. Doesthis mean Mara is a sub-tribe of Lautu? I don't think so. Even Lusei'shlado and hlapuis are all Lai. It also doesn't mean they are sub-tribeof Lai. Rather it is found out that usually people tend to sing Hladoand Hlapui in a language everyone may not understand as it is also inreligious practices visible in some religion. Eg. Hindu priests prayingin Sanskrit - a language not everyone understands. Such practices arecommon. Zopheis must have done it the same thing. It doesn'tnecessarily mean that such songs will have to be composed in our motherlanguage. If your argument is true, then Mizos(Luseis) too as thesub-tribe of Lai. Why Lais are so obsessed with assimilating smallertribes - clubbing them all under their wings? But if they use the samestick with Mizos, they will laught at them. So, their scholars shouldhave better check some new trick for their argument to stand tall. @James:In terms of linguistic affinity these sub-groups-Zyphe, Lautu,senthang, etc. have a lot of similarity with Haka dialect which isbecoming Lai holh or language.. My response: Languagisticaffinity can be used as a measurement for languages as a distinctlanguages provided they understand each other(one another). Germaniclanguages as @PeaceOut mentioned are today a very different language.And no scholars will say English speaking people are sub-tribe ofGermans. Latin, Greek, Romans languages have all those affinities andcloseness. But these languages not dialects of one, but are distinctand separate languages today. @James: At the same time, though our Zophei brethen in Chin hills are a part of Lai. Myresponse: When they are too small to be counted politically, the onlyoption left is to go with those who have more authority, power andstrength. A century ago, Lais were really powerful and most tribals inthe region had to make space for them. That's the reason why theyoccopy the centre of the Kuki-Chin-Mizo land. Their influence was feltby kings of chiefs as far as Chapi, Tipa, Siaha. Zopheis are tooinsignificant to say they are distinct and equal partner of Lais. Theonly option left is to submit to Lais. Today, they formed an alliancewith Zotung, Lautu, Mara and Senthang, they called it ZZLMS to asserttheir distinct identities. @James: In India we do notnecessarily claim to be a part of Lai. The dynamic nature of ethnicitywhich can underwent a change with change in Politics, geography, etc.explains this.. My response: Zopheis in India do not calledthemselves part of Lai but those in Burmese do.. if you stand with thisviewpoint it makes no sense at all. This is not the dynamic nature ofethnicity but wrong portrayal of the true identity of distinct andvaried tribes living in the region. In my opinion it is notthe dynamic nature of the ethnicity in this part of the world, butrather this signifies that we Kuki-Chin-Mizo people do share toosimilar background that when one goes to the other place where othersare dominant they became part of that group. That's why assimilation isvery easy. You Zopheis stay close to Lais and you mostly understandLais much like them and many Maras whose villages are close to Zopheiand Lais too know these two languages, the same goes with Lautus but ifyou go down south, you won't find Maras speaking Lais, Mizos, Lautu,Zophei, or those languages. Meaning these are all distinct languagesthat have evolved. To tell you the truth, Zopheis too were notsatisfied with reading the Holy Bible in the so-called their mainlanguage Laihawlh and now they have it in Zophei language, thanks toRev. Dr. J. Ralbuai. Zophei too is a distinct language not just adialect of Lai. All Lais do not understand Zophei dialect if it istrue. English in England understand American English which is anotherdialect of English, likewise Yorkshire English speakers understandAustralian english and vice versa, etc. They are clearly dialects. Butnot Lai and Mara speakers. Some may understand but majority of them donot understand. I myself do not know the so-called Lai hawlh, likewisemajority Maras do not understand, not to mention if Lais understandMara language. That's an impossible proposition altogether. @James:I believe the same thing will happen to our Lautu, Senthang, etcbrethen have they settled in India.. After all out here in India evenLai themselves properly do not know about their own languages.. Myresponse: That's what we call assimilation. They got assimilated withthe majority people. Lawngtlai people now speak Mizo(Lusei) but notSangau, Bualpui and the adjacent villages. We must remember Lais andMizos are now trying to assert their names when it comes to claim allthe Kuki-Chin-Mizo group. Lais are just trying their best in Burma asmuch as Mizos do in India. These are a futile attempt on their parts.The truth cannot be hidden for long, it will all be revealed. @James:Nevertheless, the generic term Lai applies not only to Haka-speakingcommunities which is clear from the nature of ethnicity in Chin state. Myresponse: This conclusion is very un-scholarly and has no logicalsupport to claim and you may want to change your argument. Maras inIndia and Burma speak the same language with different dialects. Theyare still Maras. With your assumption, it looks like Maras in Burmabecame Lais and Maras in India become someone else. This is a very weakreasoning. If they are Lais in Burma, they should be still Lai in Indiatoo. Why Lais lost their identity in India? If they chose to speakLusei - that suffix their stand too. Lais in India are tooinsignificant to claim their separate identity like Zopheis in Burma.And they are left with no option but to follow the biggest group amongKuki-Chin-Mizo group which is really disgusting. We all need to knowthat peace and true harmony will emerge only when we recognize eachothers first as distinct people speaking different languages but areclosely related to one another. Simply because some are less doesn'tmean we should try to assimilate them. Let them also develop theirlanguages, increase literature, etc. We must all develop together as awhole. We cannot and should not allow anyone among us to be left behindin development and progress. That way 'Unity in diversity' willprevail, till then these "rogue scholars" will only anger more people. I'm afraid that these scholars will get ***** up if they ever venture to our Land. Wemust not allow such thing to happen. Let freedom and truth prevaileverywhere every tribes live happily and enjoys peace and freedomforever. - Mara SuperstaradditionWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 11:51:13Chin = Asho, Mara, Khumi, Lai, Lautu Zomi, Senthang, Zophei, Zotung, etc in Chin Hills. Lai = Hakha & Thlantlang dialects in Chin Hills. InIndia, Mizo may include many tribes as per the definition accepted bythe people living in it. But if it is only to describe Lusei/Duhlianspeaking people, then Hmars, Lais, Maras, Paites may not be countedthere. - Mara Superstar.
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